Francesca's Story

[00:00:00]
>> Francesca Sadikin: So my journey into tech, I used to be an architect and then I was a software engineer. I work at Netflix now and I do courses on the side.
>> Male Speaker 1: What got you into tech from architecture?
>> Francesca Sadikin: Yes, why did I leave architecture? So, I didn't realize how little money architects made.

[00:00:23]
And so when I was trying to live in LA on $33,000 a year, I was like, this is very hard to live here. And so my husband, at the time, was like, if you want money, software engineering is a great opportunity for that, even if you hate it.

[00:00:40]
You'll make a lot more than what you're making now. And so I was like, well, let me try it. And thankfully, I did because I always thought that architecture was my passion. I realized I just liked architecture, I actually have a passion for coding. It is so much more funner, yes.

[00:01:04]
So for money initially, but now it's passion, [LAUGH].
>> Male Speaker 2: Can you tell me more about that passion? What first made you realize that you'd found it?
>> Francesca Sadikin: So, I was learning through FreeCodeCamp, where you start out with HTML, CSS, JavaScript, so a bunch of the front end web stuff, design stuff.

[00:01:24]
And that was the most fun thing, was that as an architect, you can design something, five years later it'll be done and you'll realize that that was a bad design. [LAUGH] But in software, you build it and it's instantaneous. You have such a quick feedback loop to, one, improve your design and now with the ability to think of anything I want and then build it.

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I was like, my god, so powerful. I can build anything I want and that feeling is exactly why I like it, it's the freedom.
>> Female Speaker 1: What was like the moment when you realized, okay, I can do this. And how did that feel?
>> Francesca Sadikin: The day I decided to quit my job as an architect was when I was just like, I actually really, really enjoy it.

[00:02:11]
And so I didn't have any particular skills. But the fact that I just loved coding and did all my free code exercise in all times of the day, I think that was enough an indicator to me that I'm like, forget architecture. Software is where it's at now.
>> Male Speaker 1: How did you get exposure into the tech community being self-taught?

[00:02:36]
>> Francesca Sadikin: I joined a lot of meetups and joined online communities like Chingu. It's a free service that's somewhat chaotic, but it [LAUGH] sorts students all over the world into groups of four to build projects in eight weeks. And so, that was my community for a long time.
>> Male Speaker 2: Can you elaborate on what made it chaotic?

[00:03:05]
>> Francesca Sadikin: Because it's free, a lot of people join, but they don't get to the finish line. And so you might be left with the whole project to build an eight weeks by yourself. [LAUGH] I found that happening a lot, but it was still very valuable. You said you got into tech through starting on FreeCodeCamp.

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>> Mark: What other resources or things did you do to continue to learn?
>> Francesca Sadikin: Yes, so I did FreeCodeCamp. That's where I found in the forums about Chingu. And I spent a few iterations building voyages. That's what they're called in Chingu, to the point where the admin team was like, you're around all the time.

[00:03:50]
Maybe you wanna join the admin team. And so that educational platform I was talking about before, that's Chingu. And so I was brought on to build for all of their students. And so that nine month time frame, which unfortunately had no users at the end, but I learned a lot [LAUGH] because these are real projects.

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They weren't tutorials, but they were real things, it was very custom. And so spending that nine months building with the team helped me gather tons of experience and really hone my skills. Even though it was not great quality code, it looked great and it worked.
>> Male Speaker 2: How did you feel when you were left holding the bag?

[00:04:39]
So to speak, when people would fall away and you are the one left to finish the project. How did that make you feel?
>> Francesca Sadikin: So definitely a little frustrated that I was just like, it's okay. This is important and it's gonna look great on my portfolio, so I'm gonna finish this.

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I'm gonna learn a lot.
>> Male Speaker 2: Sure, and then when you spent the nine months building that feature and nobody used it. How did you feel at that point?
>> Francesca Sadikin: Definitely embarrassed, where I was like, I'm a goddamn designer. I should have known this, [LAUGH] how can I not have seen this?

[00:05:16]
And just so, it's like I learned a lesson. That was a very painful lesson that I will always remember now, right? I'm like, yeah, forgot the users, that's important. Go ahead.
>> Mark: How did you feel when you applied for Netflix and eventually got the job? What was that process like?

[00:05:39]
>> Francesca Sadikin: So I didn't apply for the job, their recruiter actually found me. And I was very surprised because I had heard that Netflix only hires extremely experienced engineers. And so, I wasn't expecting anything because I was very early on in my career. And so they reached out for interviews.

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I was like, cool, probably not gonna get it, just gonna try it anyways though and I'm sure I'll learn something. And I just got through every single interview thinking, probably not gonna get that. It's probably wasn't great. And then I just kept getting the next interview I did that all the way up to the call with HR when they actually gave me the offer.

[00:06:19]
I was still like, probably not gonna get it. And yeah, just shocked that, I was, well, [LAUGH] I actually got the job. Just very surprising. But I was like, wow, I'm really glad that I constantly update my LinkedIn, cuz that's how they found me [LAUGH] was through LinkedIn.

[00:06:37]
Yes, I feel like there is, cuz I give this introduction a lot for myself. I know the details I usually [LAUGH] tell, but there's a huge chunk right there in the middle about something. [LAUGH] That something is it's like, go ahead.
>> Male Speaker 1: Do you think there is an advantage to you being aloof during that process?

[00:07:03]
>> Francesca Sadikin: Doing aloof, I think it was more like it's not aloof, but just setting my expectations low. That's just how we were raised. We're like, try very hard, but expect nothing, [LAUGH] just so that we don't feel the bitter sense of disappointment. Yes, so there's, yep, go ahead, Mark.

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>> Mark: This one online said, I find myself alone building projects. I don't mind it, but is there a community where I should join and build projects collaboratively?
>> Francesca Sadikin: Yeah, so Chingu is one, again, remember, it is chaotic. [LAUGH] But, the other ones, I think they're still around. It's been a few years, but there's this organization called Code for America.

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They have numerous chapters across the country, and so at least the way it is in LA. It's some sort of like regular meetup where representatives from the local government will come with an actual real request for a project. And then these groups of engineers, designers, and project managers will actually form together to solve that problem with that stakeholder.

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And so, you're actually working in a real team, you're working on a real project, and you are gaining tons of experience this way as well.
>> Male Speaker 2: And hopefully helping your [CROSSTALK]
>> Francesca Sadikin: And you're helping, [LAUGH] yeah, you're helping society. So does anyone want to ask me about how I got my [LAUGH] first job?

[00:08:30]
What that was like?
>> Male Speaker 1: How did you get your [LAUGH] first job?
>> Francesca Sadikin: [LAUGH] Yes. Yeah, so that's actually, like, that's actually the bulk of what I remember in my career is because it was so hard. [LAUGH] I spent a year and nine months trying to get a job, and during that time period I was doing everything that was recommended.

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I was working on my skills, I built portfolios, I went to the hackathons, I went to the networking events. I did my resume a bajillion times and everyone I was speaking with was like, I'm not sure why you don't get any calls back, because it seems fine. But I literally got nothing, not even a rejection email for a year and nine months.

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And if you ask me how I felt about it, [LAUGH] I've never been someone who was depressed before in my life. But I think during that time period was the closest I felt depressed and despair, because it's like that feeling where you try so hard, but you have no results from it, right?

[00:09:43]
See, I tear up just a little bit thinking about it because it was such a hard time. And so, yeah, and then just right as I was about [LAUGH] to quit, I was just like, I'm a designer. Why am I trying to be [LAUGH] an engineer? That was when that first interview request came in from 8 Flight.

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And so this is my takeaway for a lot of engineers when they're starting off, is that, how hard it took for you to get your first job doesn't reflect the potential you have as an engineer, right? Cuz it's very hard and you just need that one opportunity. And sometimes it just takes time, right?

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And so, I think the goal, especially for folks getting their first job, is trying to figure out how to give yourself enough of that time. And maybe cushion your finances a little bit so you can wait that amount of time while you're still preparing for the opportunity.
>> Francesca Sadikin: There's a bulk of it right there, right [LAUGH]?

[00:10:49]
>> Male Speaker 2: I was waiting for the word tough.
>> Francesca Sadikin: Yes, tough [LAUGH] despair is how I felt, [LAUGH]. Yes.
>> Female Speaker 2: If I may ask, what help you keep the confidence and the morale up during that time. And also, were you working on your skills at the same time while looking [CROSSTALK].

[00:11:12]
>> Francesca Sadikin: Yeah definitely, I was coding every day you know with Chingu and stuff. Right as I got that job, that's when I was like, goodbye, Chingu, thank you. But how to keep morale up. I think part of it that helped me from getting too upset was because I had this project with Chingu where there were other people,.

[00:11:36]
I was really learning a lot and I get felt like I was a part of a team. We were a team, and we were building towards something. And so, having that to focus on helped me not feel so bad. [LAUGH] Because I think when you don't have that, and you're just applying every day and then getting that constant objection.

[00:11:59]
You don't feel the little wins and it's easy to get very, very depressed and angry about your situation. So I think trying to find situations where you can work in groups towards a common goal, and that's still benefiting your skills, I think that will help.
>> Mark: How difficult was your first year as a software developer, once you started your first role?

[00:12:24]
>> Francesca Sadikin: Once I started my role, so after the apprenticeship or?
>> Mark: Your first year as a software developer.
>> Francesca Sadikin: So the first year as a professional, paid [LAUGH] software developer was at 8 Flight, where the first six months was actually an apprenticeship, and so they paid us to learn actually.

[00:12:45]
And I mean tons of imposter syndrome, even now tons of imposter syndrome, I am constantly working with amazing engineers, and I'm always like, I don't know if I should be here. I'm not sure if I'm as as good as you guys, but yeah, just feeling, I'm like, I can't lose this opportunity, [LAUGH].

[00:13:07]
I Just working really, really hard, and it was actually like, I just worked so hard, and I didn't talk to anybody as that actually was a mistake too. That I worked so hard always. I never had lunch with anyone, even though everyone always invited me. Never did any of that and just kept my head down.

[00:13:28]
And I guess it was okay, but I think I could have done more if I had actually just branched out a little bit. But yeah, the first year, learned a lot, but also massive imposter syndrome, just afraid that I was gonna get fired the entire time.
>> Male Speaker 2: Do you feel heard and understood?

[00:13:46]
>> Francesca Sadikin: I do. Yeah, when people feel deeper emotions, when they share it. I think you can't help but feel connections when people don't reject you for that emotion, right? They're like, yeah, I relate. And I'm like, yeah, same, right? Was it helpful to do aversion with me before we go?

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>> Male Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, when your eyes welled up a little bit, so did mine, so, cuz I relate to that emotion.
>> Francesca Sadikin: Yeah, yes. And that's where connection is formed is to feel that common experience with common feelings together.